marriage look up

[Karen C]

Hi out there!

My gr-grandfather HERBERT WALKER GARNER supposedly re-married after my gr-grandmother JEANNIE GARNER died in Liverpool 1902.They had 3 litttle kids under 7 at the time. HERBERT died in Blackpool in 1907 and his widow ...D.A. GARNER...signed the death certificate. Only problem is I can't find a record of this second marriage. Anyone got any thoughts?...... I kind of smell a rat as he didn't sign Jeannie's death certificate and he was a commercial traveler selling sewing machines in 1901 when they both came from wealthy backgrounds.

Cheers

[MaryA]

Hi and welcome to the forum.

I don't see a marriage for this gentleman in the time span that you give, although any records held would be at the Lancashire Record Office, presuming that a marriage took place in the Blackpool/Fylde area.

I would think your best idea would be to see whether the Letters of Administration give any clues, or follow up, if possible with the Solicitors who handled the estate. Enquiries with a local Solicitor or the Law Society may be able to tell you where any documentation has been lodged.

GARNER Herbert Walker of Egerton Road, Blackpool died 22nd October 1907at Church Street, Blackpool. Administration (Limited) London 20 December to Charles Hadfield Wright Solicitor, Effects £147 18s 3d.

Information about how to apply for Wills/Letters of Administration has been collected here http://liverpool-genealogy.org.uk/phpBB ... php?t=7142

[MaryA]

From the London Gazette 4th October, 1912

NOTICE is hereby given, that the Partnership
heretofore subsisting between us, the undersigned,
William Ayrton, Frederick Morton Radcliffe
and Charles Hadfield Wright, carrying on business as
Solicitors at 10, Dale-street, Liverpool, and 34,
Clements-lane, London, E.G., under the style or firm
of " AYRTON, RADCLIFFE AND WRIGHT," has
been dissolved by mutual consent as from the thirtieth
day of September, 1912. All debts due and
owing to or by the said late firm will be received and
paid by the said William Ayrton and Frederick
Morton Radcliffe. In future the said William Ayrton
and Frederick Morton Radcliffe will carry on business
in partnership at 10, Dale-street, Liverpool, under
the style of "Ayrton and Radcliffe," and the said
Churl as Hadfield Wright will carry on business in
his own name at 34, Clements-lane, London, E.G.—
Dated this thirtieth day of September, 1912.
WM. AYRTON.
F. M. RADCLIFFE.
CHAS. H. WRIGHT

In 1906 Charles Hadfield Wright appears to have been living at 72 Park Road South, Birkenhead.

Unfortunately 10 Dale Street has not remained as a Solicitor all these years, is now a Sayers Bakers, so any documents have probably been stored.

Try the Letters of Administration first to see what they have to say.

[Clatterbridgegirl1967]

They were living apart in 1901, jeannie was with her Aunt Mary C Goodwin and children in Walton on the Hill and he was a boarder in Everton and in the 1911 the children are still with the aunt and other relatives in Walton

1911 Census
66 Alroy Road, Walton
GOODWIN, Mary Head Single F 68 1843 Private Means Cheshire Birkenhead
MOORE, Madeleine Grand Neice Single F 26 1885 Private Means Lancashire Liverpool
MOORE, Ruth Grand Neice Single F 23 1888 Private Means Lancashire Liverpool
GARNER, Gilbert Grand Nephew Single M 16 1895 Student Cheshire Liscard
GARNER, Violet Grand Neice F 14 1897 School Cheshire Liscard
GARNER, Frank Grand Nephew M 13 1898 School Lancashire Liverpool
JONES, Mary Servant Single F 26 1885 General Servant Domestic Lancashire Liverpool

Only one D.A Garner in 1911 Census and she married a garner.... quite a mystery. Would it be worth checking the electoral list for his address at time of death?

ali

[dickiesam]

As Clatterbridgegirl surmised, it would appear to me that the Garner family parents had already separated by April 1901. Jeannie Garner, the mother, and her 3 children are with her aunt Mary Goodwin.. Herbert is boarding elsewhere..

GOODWIN, Mary C - Head - u/m - 58 - Living On Own Means - Birkenhead,
Cheshire.
GARNER, Jeannie S - Niece - Married - 42 - Liverpool.
GARNER, Gilbert J H - Grand Nephew - 6 - Liverpool.
GARNER, Violet M - Grand Niece - 4 - Liverpool.
GARNER, Frank - Grand Nephew - 3 - Tuebrook, Lancashire.
JONES, Mary - Servant - u/m - 16 - General Serv (Domestic) - Fairfield, Lancashire.
Address: 7 Argyle Road, Walton On The Hill, Liverpool.
RG13 - Piece:3456 - Folio: 39 - Page:9.

Herbert in 1901 is in the home of...
BIGGAR, Isabella - Head - Widow - 48 - Scotland.
There are 4 Biggar children + a son-in-law, and then..
HARRIS, Margaret - Friend - u/m - 19 - Scotland.
DIXON, Elsie M - G.Child - F - 0 (10 MOS) - Liverpool.
GARNER, Herbert W - Boarder - Married - 37 - Traveller (Sewing Machines) - Liverpool.
FAULKNER, John - Boarder - U/M - 26 - Blacksmith - Scotland.
Address: 25 St Chrysostom Street, Everton.
RG13 - Piece:3484 - Folio:16 - Page:23

I very much doubt that Herbert or Jeannie managed to get a divorce between 1898 when their son Frank was born and 1902 when Jeannie died. It would have been a lengthy and extremely expensive process.

Stretching the imagination a bit here but Jeannie died...
Deaths Sep qtr 1902> Garner, Jeannie Stuart - 45 - W. Derby - 8b - 217.

And there are only 2 Herbert W** Garner marriages up to 1907 when he died:
Marriages Sep qtr 1902:
Garner, Herbert Walter & probably Croft, Katherine Amelia - Plomesgate - 4a - 1910.
Garner, Herbert Walter & either Potts, Mary Jane or Shaw, Edith Eleanor - Huddersfield - 9a - 590.

Both GRO Index pages show Walter, but could one be a mistake for Walker? Was the D A Garner on the death cert actually K or C A?

DS

[MaryA]

Would it be worth checking the electoral list for his address at time of death?

Good idea if Karen is close enough to either Blackpool or the Lancashire Record Office to be able to do this.

I still believe the Letters of Administration should give a wife's name.

[MaryA]

I received a pm from Karen and will share the information so others can also give their opinion.

"Thanks so much for all your helpful information. I do appreciate your help.Interesting that the solicitor who dealt with the admin of Herbert's estate was Charles Wright who was Herbert's first wife's (Jeannie Garner)brother in law...Jeannie's sister's husband. My guess is Jeannie's family who were well known shipping identities in Liverpool have got Charles to deal with it to make sure it was fair for Jeannie & Herbert's children. Jeannie was the daughter of Gilbert Goodwin who had his own shipping business and Herbert was the son of an iron foundery operator and grew up with a household of servants. Somethings gone terribly wrong for Herbert to be selling sewing machines in 1901.
In Gores Directory 1900 the house Jeannie is living in is listed under the name 'Mrs Jeannie Garner'. Mary, does this mean Herbert is definitely not living with her at this stage?? If he was, wouldn't the house be in Herbert's name?
On Jeannie's death certificate in 1902 signed by her dad Gilbert Goodwin and she died at her parents house, Gilbert still lists her husband as Herbert Garner and says his occupation was an estate agent. Herbert was selling sewing machines in 1901 and was a commercial traveller in 1907 when he died. Do you think Gilbert was trying to keep his daughter's death certificate looking respectable?? "

My thoughts only as we have no proof.

Gores Directory of 1900 - if it is registered in Jeannie's name then as early as 1899 when the directory was compiled, he was no longer with her, could be earlier of course but we may have no means of knowing this.

As she was living and died? on the Wirral and Herbert was living in Liverpool, it is possible that Gilbert had no contact with him and may not have been aware of the change in his occupation, so gave what he believed to be truthful information.

[Clatterbridgegirl1967]

He may not have been an ideal husband and could have been a financial fritterer or been very unlucky but the family may well have been aware of his circumstances if he maintained any contact with his remaining son.
I still think the electoral list may be helpful if they go back that far if you have jennies or family addresses to cross check if you want to find out if they split earlier and he could have Ben living over the broom in Blackpool with the elusive D.A. Garner. It's like the bold and the beautiful . . Sucks you in and you want more lol! I love these type of histories, you solve a little bit and it throws up even more questions, just like my own ;D

Ali

[Karen C]

Hi Mary

As I'm a novice at this forum, the only reason I didn't put my response to you in the public arena was because I hadn't worked out how to! So thanks.

I also think you are spot on with your thoughts on Jeannie and her separation from her husband and also with Jeannie's father perhaps not even being aware of Herbert's different occupation. Jeannie's son.....my grandfather....was told that his father died when he was about 14 months old and he never knew him. The skeleton in the cupboard is finally out.

Thanks for your thoughts and assistance

Cheers

Karen

[MaryA]

We all have our skeletons, it's what makes our research so much fun.

Do apply for a copy of the Letters of Administration, it just might give another insight more than you already know.

[Karen C]

Indeed!!

Have just organised to get a copy of the Letters of Admin.

So thanks

[Clatterbridgegirl1967]

Hi Karen how easy was this to arrange, I need to do one myself

Ali

[MaryA]

It's quite simple, the information given in the link above explains.
http://liverpool-genealogy.org.uk/phpBB ... php?t=7142

[Clatterbridgegirl1967]

Thanks MaryA

Ali