Philip Carlin (Sumner ?)

[gerardsdarcy]

Thank you for all the responses.
I have collated the information and after digestion will contact my sister again for her to speak to the Carlin's and see where we go from here.
I really appreciate your time and effort and goodwill.

Regards

Ged

[Katie]

While at Liverpool today I had a look iin The Liverpool Workhouse and I could not find a entry for ELizabeth Carlin.

I checked the 1901 censes and there were 3 entries for a Elizabeth Carlin born abt 1873/74

Elizabeth Carlin born abt 1873 in Ireland and she was a inmate at Walton Workhouse.

Elizabeth Carlin born abt 1874 in Liverpool a boarder at 13 Chapel Lane.

Elizabeth Carlin born abt 1874 in Ireland inmate at Walton Workhouse.

The two Elizabeth Carlin's who are inmates at Walton are the most likely ones to be Phillips mother if she was resident in the Workhouse.

Upon experience when we could look through the Fazackerley COttage homes records most of the children admitted there had come from Walton Workhouse while the relatives where in there.

I think the best thing to do is get access to the Fazackerley Cottage homes record for Phillip

[Tina]

That's good info Katie about the connection between Walton Workhouse and Fazackerley Homes.
I shall write that down in my book, otherwise I'll forget
Tina

[gerardsdarcy]

Thanks for that Katie, another piece in the jigsaw perhaps.

[gerardsdarcy]

Some minor progress.

I am now looking for the marriage of Philip Carlin (the Philip Carlin) to Annie McAllister circa 1912.

I have found Philip Carlin 1911 Q3 Liverpool 8b 147 but can not link it to Annie McAllister or find a marriage for Annie about this time.
Is there any way to link Philip's GRO details to his partner without getting the certificate ?.

I located the siblings for them, all named Carlin with mother named McAlister :- Philip B jr 1912, Harry 1916, Joseph 1921, William 1925, John 1927, Marion T 1929, Patricia 1932, Hilda 1933 but can not find Molly, tried Mary and Margaret any other variations ?.

I note there is a gap between births of 4 years between 1912 - 1916 and 5 years 1916 - 1921 could Philip have away in the war ?, can not find his records but have found medal awards to 5 Philip Carlin's expect he could be one of them

Some sad news Philip, John and Harry were all rescued from Dunkirk and whilst on leave in Liverpool after this Harry was killed during an air raid in Q2 1941 the may blitz ? in an anderson shelter, so the story goes, I need to check this out.

[Katie]

Phillip Carlin Married Annie McAllister in September qtr 1911 On Lancashire BMD it says Registrar Attended which means the marriage took place in either a Catholic Church or Registry Office. If you know what Parish he resided in at the time it may be possible to look through the Catholic Registers that cover the district of Liverpool.

I think it is important that you get this certificate as it was close to the 1911 census and you will get a address.

[gerardsdarcy]

Katie,
Thanks, must remember to cast my net a bit further, I have only been looking on ancestry.

[dickiesam]

Hi,
There's a problem with the search indexing on FreeBMD. If you search for Carlin, Philip you get zero hits even with the correct qtr and district. However, thanks to Katie, searching for McAllister, Annie produces this:

Marriages Sep 1911>
Carlin , Phillip - Liverpool - 8b - 147.
McAllister, Annie - Liverpool - 8b - 147.

Haven't come across this before and haven't found a way to report the problem. Anyone know?

Dickiesam

[Tina]

Hi D.S
You've got Phillip and so has Katie.
Well done!
Searching for Philip may bring up nothing??

Tina

[gerardsdarcy]

More information is coming to light.

I have now received the marriage certificate of Philip Carlin (occ plumbers labourer) and Annie McAllister they were married on 2nd Aug 1911 at Holy Cross Church, Standish Street, L'pool and they were both living in Hunter Street L'pool No's 45 and 28. Both aged 17 and surprise surprise no fathers listed. Witnesses were William Given and Catherine Dever.

I can not trace Philip Carlin in the 1911 census. There are a few Annie McAllister's so will have to buy some more credits, when I looked at the Hunter Street address's there are 10 residents at No 45 so it could cost me about a tenner to scroll thro these if I was unlucky, anybody know of any short cuts.

Further information is that Philip Carlin worked for the GPO in Liverpool for 45 ? years as a telephone engineer and spent his war years in the Royal Signals. How do I get access to these records ?.

It is slowly coming together.

[Katie]

To throw another spanner in the works?

Here is the marriage entry taken from the parish register for Holy Cross,

2nd August 1911

Philip Carlin 28 Hunter Street-son of Edward and Eliz Carlin

Ann McAllister 28 Hunter Street daughter of David Gwynn

Witnesses: William Gwynn 12 Trueman Street

Catherine Devlin 27 Upper Milk Street

I dont know how to post the entry so others can see the original entry from the register can you help Mary A

[Hilary]

You can obtain his Army Records from Glasgow. However they have a list of the order in which relatives can claim. You have to be the next living next of kin on their list.

This website should help www.veterans-uk.info it costs £30 and can take up to 6 months

As far as I am aware there are no records of GPO Telephone Engineers but I'm quite willing to be proved wrong!. My father was one and also served in the Royal Signals.

Hilary
Ed Officer

[MaryA]

We won't really need the original since you have given full details Katie.

Using the free index only for the 1911 census - enter the name William and in the residence put 12 TRUEMAN and drop down the counties box to Lancashire.

A result comes up William WYNNE - 35. Take the name William out and enter WYNNE into the surname box, leave the other details and there is also Margeret - 30.

[dickiesam]

Hi,
Re Ann McAllister...
I had a look for David Gwynn in 1901 and fairly sure I found him [he's the only one!] but spelled and transcribed Gwin. A boot repairer born Chester 1870. Wife is Elizabeth bn Liverpool 1873.

As Mary suggested you need to use the 1911 free index but this time looking for Elizabeth Gwin not Gwynn. It's a common mis-spelling of an old Welsh name. With luck it might give you the Schedule # for the rooms in Hunter Street occupied by the tenants you want to look at and save you some credits.

If you had asked my father a hundred years ago who lived at #28 he could probably have told you. He lived at #48 and according to his sisters he was something of a local scallywag!

Dickiesam

[MaryA]

Again using the free index and following Dickiesam's spelling suggestions, there are not many people with the surname Gwin so Showing the Advanced Fields on the search and entering the partial reference RD453 in the reference box and the surname GWIN in the Other Members of the Household, Last Name box - could that be your Annie aged 16?

[MaryA]

I had a look for David Gwynn in 1901 and fairly sure I found him [he's the only one!] but spelled and transcribed Gwin.

Forgot you had FMP - transcribed Gewin on Ancestry.

[Tina]

Hi
I thought the father's weren't named on the marriage cert?
See page 2.
Witnesses names different too??
And numbers 45 & 28 Hunter St for the happy couple.
Both numbers not listed in 1911 Gores/Kellys

Tina

[Katie]

On the marriage certificate it doesnt record the fathers names, but I always check what it says in the Church register as sometimes more information is recorded and in this case, what I have transcribed is what is recorded in the Roman Catholic Register.

[gerardsdarcy]

Thanks for all that.

I have miss read the certificate looks like William Gwin could be correct however Catherine still looks like Dever.

I will upload a copy of the cert if anybody can tell me how to do it.

I have it as a scan or in PDF

regards

[Katie]

There was a baptism at St Joseph's 1900 for

William Arthur Gwin Parents David and Elizabeth Gwin (nee McAlister) this is on the Liverpool History projects site. What a puzzle this one is