Hello
This is my first time posting & I am hoping someone can help me.
I have a copy of the death certificate for my Grandfather John KNEALE. He died by his own hand in a workshop at 46 Mandeville Street around 3rd March 1940. His usual residence was 23 Hahnemann Road. At the time of his marriage he lived at 24 Hooton Road.
What I would like is to obtain copies of any newspaper reports of the incident along with details of the inquest (held 5th March 1940) and most importantly, to find out where he is buried as even his son (then aged 5yrs) does not know this.
We live in the Isle of Man, so any help or advice would be most appreciated. Once we have all this information we plan a family trip to visit John’s resting place.
Thanking you,
Lillibean.
Help Please - Burial - John KNEALE March 1940
John KNEALE died March 1940
Hello Lillibean and welcome to the best forum around.
I am sure someone will come up with newspaper archive info but in the meantime you might try contacting the Coroner's Office in Liverpool to see if they still hold inquest records from that period or if they have been archived somewhere. As far as I know coroners were only required to hold onto records for a period of ten years but many considered them too valuable a resource to simply dump them.
Lots of info here, including an email address:
H M Coroner
Another idea is that since John Kneale was almost certainly taken to a hospital for an autopsy/postmortem. The death cert may have an address on it, different from his home address, but may not say it is a hospital, just an address like 42 Belmont Road. That one was actually Belmont Road Hospital, later Newshom Hospital.
If you can find the hospital, they should still have the record of which undertaker collected the remains. The undertaker, and most are still in business (!), should be able to tell you about the burial arrangements.
It would also be a help if you knew John's religion at time of death. Could limit the choice of cemeteries and bear in mind there's always the possibility of a cremation. In the latter case the crematorium will be able to tell you what happened to the ashes. At that time the only one in operation in Liverpool was in Anfield. From the website:
Anfield and Springwood Crematoria
Anfield crematorium opened in 1896 and is in fact the fourth oldest crematorium in the country. The building itself is now a listed building and is set within a rose garden of remembrance.
Would be worth contacting them to check their March/April/May 1940 records?
Cheers,
Dickiesam
I am sure someone will come up with newspaper archive info but in the meantime you might try contacting the Coroner's Office in Liverpool to see if they still hold inquest records from that period or if they have been archived somewhere. As far as I know coroners were only required to hold onto records for a period of ten years but many considered them too valuable a resource to simply dump them.
Lots of info here, including an email address:
H M Coroner
Another idea is that since John Kneale was almost certainly taken to a hospital for an autopsy/postmortem. The death cert may have an address on it, different from his home address, but may not say it is a hospital, just an address like 42 Belmont Road. That one was actually Belmont Road Hospital, later Newshom Hospital.
If you can find the hospital, they should still have the record of which undertaker collected the remains. The undertaker, and most are still in business (!), should be able to tell you about the burial arrangements.
It would also be a help if you knew John's religion at time of death. Could limit the choice of cemeteries and bear in mind there's always the possibility of a cremation. In the latter case the crematorium will be able to tell you what happened to the ashes. At that time the only one in operation in Liverpool was in Anfield. From the website:
Anfield and Springwood Crematoria
Anfield crematorium opened in 1896 and is in fact the fourth oldest crematorium in the country. The building itself is now a listed building and is set within a rose garden of remembrance.
Would be worth contacting them to check their March/April/May 1940 records?
Cheers,
Dickiesam
DS
Member # 7743
RIP 20 April 2015
Emery, McAnaspie/McAnaspri etc, Fry, McGibbon/McKibbion etc, Burbage, Butler, Brady, Foulkes, Sarsfield, Moon [Bristol & Cornwall].
Census information is Crown Copyright http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/
Member # 7743
RIP 20 April 2015
Emery, McAnaspie/McAnaspri etc, Fry, McGibbon/McKibbion etc, Burbage, Butler, Brady, Foulkes, Sarsfield, Moon [Bristol & Cornwall].
Census information is Crown Copyright http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/
Hi Lillibean,
Liverpool Records Office have Coroner's records on microfilm
RefNo M347 COR/L/1
Title Liverpool Coroner Inquest Registers
Date 1898-1970
Description Includes name, address, date and cause of death
Extent 20 volumes
AccessConditions Please note that the inquest registers are available on microfilm only.
There should also be newspapers on microfilm there, I found my grandfather's obit in the newspaper for 1966, which also gave the date and place of burial.
Jan
Liverpool Records Office have Coroner's records on microfilm
RefNo M347 COR/L/1
Title Liverpool Coroner Inquest Registers
Date 1898-1970
Description Includes name, address, date and cause of death
Extent 20 volumes
AccessConditions Please note that the inquest registers are available on microfilm only.
There should also be newspapers on microfilm there, I found my grandfather's obit in the newspaper for 1966, which also gave the date and place of burial.
Jan
Clarke, McLeod, Pendleton (Liverpool and I.O.M.) Coltham, Cowley, Nickson, Huyton, Grisdale, Quirk, Knowles, Street, Howard. Knubley.
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lillibean
Dear Dickiesam & Jan,
Thank you both so much for your suggestions.
I have emailed the coroner, who has already followed up my query, & I am waiting to hear if the records still exist.
I have emailed the cemeteries & crematorium, so await there reply too.
Does anyone know if the newspapers are searchable online?
Thanking you again
lillibean
Thank you both so much for your suggestions.
I have emailed the coroner, who has already followed up my query, & I am waiting to hear if the records still exist.
I have emailed the cemeteries & crematorium, so await there reply too.
Does anyone know if the newspapers are searchable online?
Thanking you again
lillibean
I don't think there are any newpapers online for those years,
But if you send an e-mail to Liverpool RO, they may do a free 15 min search for you, if you give them all the details, and explain where you live and are unable to get to the records office, you may get lucky.
http://www.liverpool.gov.uk/Leisure_and ... /index.asp
Jan
Clarke, McLeod, Pendleton (Liverpool and I.O.M.) Coltham, Cowley, Nickson, Huyton, Grisdale, Quirk, Knowles, Street, Howard. Knubley.
John KNEALE March 1940
Hello again Lillibean,
In case you don't already have it I think John's birth is one of these:
Births Mar 1900 - Kneale, John - Ulverston - 8e - 826.
Births Sep 1900 - Kneale, John Edward - Toxteth Park - 8b - 235.
If he's the first one he'll be in the 1901. If he's the second birth you'll have to go the 1911.
Please keep us updated on progress. It helps to oil the wheels especially when we make connections etc.
Regards,
Dickiesam
In case you don't already have it I think John's birth is one of these:
Births Mar 1900 - Kneale, John - Ulverston - 8e - 826.
Births Sep 1900 - Kneale, John Edward - Toxteth Park - 8b - 235.
If he's the first one he'll be in the 1901. If he's the second birth you'll have to go the 1911.
Please keep us updated on progress. It helps to oil the wheels especially when we make connections etc.
Regards,
Dickiesam
DS
Member # 7743
RIP 20 April 2015
Emery, McAnaspie/McAnaspri etc, Fry, McGibbon/McKibbion etc, Burbage, Butler, Brady, Foulkes, Sarsfield, Moon [Bristol & Cornwall].
Census information is Crown Copyright http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/
Member # 7743
RIP 20 April 2015
Emery, McAnaspie/McAnaspri etc, Fry, McGibbon/McKibbion etc, Burbage, Butler, Brady, Foulkes, Sarsfield, Moon [Bristol & Cornwall].
Census information is Crown Copyright http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/
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lillibean
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lillibean
Dear Dickiesam,
That was so kind of you to look up the birth record. I already have his birth, as he was a Manxman, born 13th December 1899 in Castletown, Isle of Man. I understand that he met his wife whilst she worked in the hotels here in the summer season. She had been brought to Liverpool when a child as her Irish father was a dock worker, that's what I have been led to believe.
I will be delighted to share any progress I make with this. My Dad does not know where his father (John KNEALE) was laid to rest, being only 5yrs old at the time, so we plan a family visit to the grave once we have it all sorted.
Thanking you again,
lillibean.
That was so kind of you to look up the birth record. I already have his birth, as he was a Manxman, born 13th December 1899 in Castletown, Isle of Man. I understand that he met his wife whilst she worked in the hotels here in the summer season. She had been brought to Liverpool when a child as her Irish father was a dock worker, that's what I have been led to believe.
I will be delighted to share any progress I make with this. My Dad does not know where his father (John KNEALE) was laid to rest, being only 5yrs old at the time, so we plan a family visit to the grave once we have it all sorted.
Thanking you again,
lillibean.
Hi Lillibean,
I hope you have managed to get some info.
I looked in the 1938 Directory and your grandfather was listed at 23 Hahnemann Road Walton - Piano Tuner.
My guess would be that he would be in Anfield Cem, as that is the nearest cem to where your grandfather lived.
Jan
Clarke, McLeod, Pendleton (Liverpool and I.O.M.) Coltham, Cowley, Nickson, Huyton, Grisdale, Quirk, Knowles, Street, Howard. Knubley.
-
lillibean
Hello Jan,
Yes, That's our Granfather. He had been a musician all his life & was a Piano Tuner by profession.
Not sure how good a job that was way back, but I expect that it would have made him a reasonable living as live music was much more popular then & of course many more people made their own entertainment at home too.
Apparently he played the cornet too & it is believed he was in dance bands during his life too.
Our very sketchy information suggests that he took his life as he could not face going to war, I am hoping the inquest report may shed futher light on this. We are assuming then that he may have joined up in WWI (albeit very young) & perhaps like many had terrible experiences.
After we have found his grave & sorted out the details from the inquest & paper reports, I shall try to find out if he did join up for WWI.
Thanks again for your help, I shall look into Anfield cemetary records, will let you know.
lillibean
Yes, That's our Granfather. He had been a musician all his life & was a Piano Tuner by profession.
Not sure how good a job that was way back, but I expect that it would have made him a reasonable living as live music was much more popular then & of course many more people made their own entertainment at home too.
Apparently he played the cornet too & it is believed he was in dance bands during his life too.
Our very sketchy information suggests that he took his life as he could not face going to war, I am hoping the inquest report may shed futher light on this. We are assuming then that he may have joined up in WWI (albeit very young) & perhaps like many had terrible experiences.
After we have found his grave & sorted out the details from the inquest & paper reports, I shall try to find out if he did join up for WWI.
Thanks again for your help, I shall look into Anfield cemetary records, will let you know.
lillibean