Missing BEAMS link

Post by **Popsey** » 30 Oct 2009 17:40

I wonder if SKP could please help me with this query.

I have the marriage certificate of;
John Lloyd, brickmaker of Greenland St. Liverpool
(Father - George Lloyd, a tinman) and Margaret Beames of Jordan St. Liverpool (Father- Robert Beames, a rigger).
date of marriage 15 October 1849 at the Parish Church, Liverpool.

I also have the birth certificate of Richard Lloyd, son of John Lloyd, labourer, and Margaret, formerly Beams of Henderson St. Toxteth Park on 15 October 1850.

I'm assuming that these 2 Margaret's are the same person in spite of the slighlty different spellings.

I have a Robert Beams b. 1843, on the 1881 Census living in Tamworth St. with wife Mary Ellen b.1847. I'm thinking that maybe this Robert is brother to Margaret but I can't find either of them before this date even though the certificates show that Margaret was in Liverpool from 1849.
I've found a few other Beams after this date in BMD and censuses but need to place Margaret with her parents ansd siblings if possible.

I'm trying variations of spellings of the name but no luck so far.

Any suggestions please?

Post by **MaryA** » 30 Oct 2009 18:41

I would think that you are correct thinking that Margaret's name has just been spelt incorrectly, probably by a registrar rather than herself.

Can you please give her approximate date of birth, from any census entries that you have and also what ages were given on the marriage certificate.

Who were the witnesses at the marriage?

Post by **Hilary** » 30 Oct 2009 19:49

According to www.lancashirebmd.org.uk Robert BEAMS married Mary Ellen WOOD in 1864 at St peter Liverpool (September quarter). If this Robert also has a father Robert a rigger this would help prove the relationship.

Ed Officer

Post by **Popsey** » 30 Oct 2009 20:52

Hi folks
Many thanks for your interest and help.
Re your queries;
Margaret and John are both 'minors' on the marriage certificate. The marriage was witnessed by William Worral and Esther Leonard. Both the bride & groom marked the register with an X so I suppose no one really knew how the name was spelt.
There's an Esther Leonard on the 1841, aged 10 yrs born abt 1831 that looks likely to be this witness but I can't make out the address. Haven't found William Worral yet.

From the Census entries I've found for 1851, 1861, 1871 and 1881 Margaret's birth is between 1830-1833.
The 1851 entry HO107; Piece: 2187; Folio: 410; Page: 36; GSU roll: 87194 is deceptive. It looks as though Margaret's father is William Williams, but after exploring that blind alley, and after receiving the certificates I see that the 2 families living together have been mixed up a bit.

Thats a good point Ed. Off. about the Robert Beams married in 1864 - obvious really! Why didn't I think of that! I'll put it on my ever growing list of stuff to look up when I next go to the RO.

Post by **simone** » 30 Oct 2009 21:31

Hi

I think this could be them in 1841- in New Bird Street
HO107; Piece 565; Book: 10; Civil Parish: Liverpool; County: Lancashire; Enumeration District: 20; Folio: 29; Page: 11
Name Age
Robert Beans 39 Rigger
Mary Beans 30
Mary Beans 9 --- possibly 'Marg'
Robert Beans 4

Simone x

Post by **simone** » 30 Oct 2009 21:42

There is an extracted marriage on IGI Liverpool St Peter

Robert Beams to Mary Ann Pierce 20/2/1826

Baptisms show as

1. MARY ANN BEAMS -
Gender: Female Christening: 26 MAR 1832 Saint Peter, Liverpool, Lancashire, England

2. MARGARET BEEMS -
Gender: Female Christening: 14 JUN 1830 Saint Peter, Liverpool, Lancashire, England

3. THOMAS BEAM - I
Gender: Male Christening: 25 JUL 1827 Saint Peter, Liverpool, Lancashire, England

4. THOMAS BEAMS -
Gender: Male Christening: 12 JAN 1835 Saint Peter, Liverpool, Lancashire, England

5. ROBERT BEAMS -
Gender: Male Christening: 27 MAR 1837 Saint Peter, Liverpool, Lancashire, England

Simone x

Post by **Hilary** » 30 Oct 2009 21:49

I think they are brother and sister. From www.familysearch.org

Christenings at St peter Liverpool
All children of Robert and Mary Ann Beams
Thomas 25 July 1827
Margaret 14 June 1830
Mary Ann 26 March 1832
Thomas 12 January 1835
Robert 27 March 1837

Robert Beams married Mary Ann Pierce 20 Feb 1826 St Peter Liverpool

A check in the actual register would show Robert's occupation

I think he is in Toxteth Park in 1851 as a widower with his son Robert but couldn't read the address. Born in Toxteth Park is dittoed from the rest of the household so may be incorrect
Ed Officer

Post by **Hilary** » 30 Oct 2009 21:56

Have a look on the Toxteth Park cemetery site there area a number of Beams listed and some LLoyds

Think the wife Mary is here if so she wasn't dead in 1851!

Ed Officer

Post by **simone** » 30 Oct 2009 23:38

Hi Ed

Don't think the 1864 burial is her. Think it could be this lady at Greenalnd St, Liverpool
1861 RG9; Piece: 2679; Folio: 24; Page: 42
Name Age
Robert Beams 59 Mariner b Flintshire
Mary Beams 50 b Flintshire

Simone x

Post by **Popsey** » 31 Oct 2009 00:06

Thank you all so much for your help. I don't know how you find stuff so quickly!
Simone - do you mean that you think the Greenland St couple ARE the ones I'm looking for? I now know that New Bird St; Greenland St; Jordan St. were all very close to each other.

Post by **simone** » 31 Oct 2009 08:35

Hi Popsey

Well... I was thinking the Greenland Street one may be the one buried at Toxteth Park in 1864, but wasn't so sure she was yours because Robert at Greenland Street is a mariner. However I am wondering now if perhaps a Rigger could also have been classed as a mariner or maybe his job changed. The ages fit don't they and Beams is quite an unusual name.
However, in 1841 census states that Robert and Mary were born in County, whereas this couple born in Wales

We could do with finding this couple in 1851

Here is the one Ed mentioned earlier in 1851, possibly Robert with son Robert. It says on transcription that young Robert is grandson to the family they are with but image actually says lodger's son
HO107; Piece: 2186; Folio: 230; Page: 12
Court 9 No 11 Mann Street

Thos Green 53
Mary Green 39
Robt Green 12
Thos Green 11
Chas Green 5
Robt Beans 47 lodger - mariner
Robt Beans 15 lodger's son

Do you have the link to the Toxteth Park burials
http://www.toxtethparkcemetery.co.uk/db ... search.htm

Simone x

Post by **simone** » 31 Oct 2009 08:45

Hi
Here is also possibly your Mary

-

There is a death in 1843 for Mary Ann Beams
Sep q West Derby vol 20 page 683

Also a death on same page for David Beams
Sep q 1843 West Derby vol 20 paoge 683

birth for David Beams
Jun q 1843, West Derby vol 20 page 882

I reckon this Mary Ann had young David and they have both died very shortly after

So now we have Robert, widow at Mann Street with young Robert in 1851, and possible death for mum Mary in 1843.

But.. we also have a burial for a Mary in 1864, interestingly residing at Mann Street, but obviusly 13 years after Robert and son.

BEAMS Mary 55 years Wife 6 court Mann Street 9 March 1864 924 18470 C R 765 352 CEM 9/1/4

And.. we aso have a possible couple at Greenland Street in 1861 who were born in Flintshire:?

still can't find the Flintshire couple in 1851

sorry.. it's getting worse isn't it

Simone x

Post by **simone** » 31 Oct 2009 09:13

I wonder if Robert remarried

There is a possible marriage in 1852 on Lancs bmd Sep q

BEAMS Robert BROWN Mary Liverpool, St. Peter Liverpool 2122LP/25/389

(Transcribed as Bearns on Ancestry

)

Simone x

Post by **simone** » 31 Oct 2009 12:01

Hmmmm interesting

There is a Mary Brown in Greenland Street in 1851, a widow born Scotland, living with her sister

HO107; Piece: 2181; Folio: 755; Page: 60
Name Age
Susan Thomson 52
Mary Brown 40
John Healey 16

troble is the 1861 says b Flintshire

I think I would be tepmpted to look at the 1852 marriage if you can to see if it could be your Robert

Simone x

Post by **Popsey** » 31 Oct 2009 15:37

Hi again

I can't get my head round all this - feels like I'm knitting fog! I'm sharing this search with a cousin who has noticed that on the 1861 original Robert & Mary Beams have a 12 year old girl living with them in Greenland St. It looks to me like it says 'S.daugh' - ? a stepdaughter. The name looks like Eliz Vanbrist. This would support the view that this could be Robert's second wife. BUT if it is how come there's no sign of a Beams/Vanbrist marriage?
The Mary Brown in Greenland St is interesting too.
There appear to be so many transcriptions of Beams. I'm also wondering what the chances are of Flintshire actually referring to Flint St which is just around the corner!!

Post by **simone** » 31 Oct 2009 16:07

Hi Popsey

I am thinking that this Robert and Mary in 1861 may be a red herring

it's a muddle isn't it

here is Elizabeth with mum Mary from Flintshire in 1851.
HO107; Piece: 2187; Folio: 377; Page: 20
Name Age
Mary Vanderenst 35 b Flintshire
Samuel Vanderenst 15
Jane Vanderenst 13
Edward Vanderenst 11
Mary Vanderenst 8
Elizabeth Vanderenst 2

sorry about this confusion, just all so strange with Greenland St mentioned, a death at Mann St and possibly Robert living at Mann St.

I'm still tempted by the 1852 marriage... might be another to add to your list Popsey

at least you could rule it out.

Simone x

Post by **Popsey** » 02 Nov 2009 22:37

Thanks for your help Simone - and everyone else too.
Sometimes it's not easy to see the wood for the trees and a fresh perspective helps.
At least I've something more to work with now after your contributions!

Post by **Popsey** » 17 Nov 2009 21:22

This is a post script for all the kind people who helped me with my queries about this family! I had a trip to the Records Office today and checked out all the stuff you gave me. You were right Simone - Robert had 2 wives called Mary! All the other details check out too! Many thanks.

Post by **MaryA** » 18 Nov 2009 09:38

Well done, that's very successful result.

Good work there from Simone, who seems to be one of our most intuitive forum members, often comes up with a suggestion that pans out well!

Post by **simone** » 18 Nov 2009 09:41

That's great Popsey

so glad it worked out

Thanks Mary, it's great when it comes together isn't it

Simone x