Trying to identify a uniform

Post by **Jamie79** » 15 Jul 2009 14:10

Hi Folks,

Not been on in a while, been busy coping with Everton FA Cup-mania and then the wild and crazy adventure that was getting married on a remote Scottish island! Hope our great great grandchildren enjoy poring over the lovely handwritten marriage certificate we now have in our possession and maybe try and find the spot where we tied the knot at the end of June!!

Back to my own genealogical studies now, I have recently received a photograph of my great grandfather from a Danish second cousin I never knew I had who recently discovered me through this forum. Amazing to see this picture, I realise I have my great grandad's eyebrows!

Question is, can anyone identify the uniform he is wearing?

All the best,

Jamie

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Searching high and low for Stewart, Yates, Pert, Mercer, Morgan in and around Kirkdale, Garston and surrounding areas...

Post by **Hilary** » 15 Jul 2009 16:13

Congratulations

Er how do I see the photo tried clicking on the box but that got me to Free Image Hosting but no photo

Ed Officer

Forget all the above the phot has miraculously appeared!

Post by **Jamie79** » 15 Jul 2009 16:20

Haha, as if by magic...!!

Post by **MaryA** » 15 Jul 2009 17:05

Well congratulations! I hope you had a wonderful time.

I wonder if you have any ideas as to the date this might have been taken, or even give us the name and birth and death dates of great grandad and did he live in Liverpool? Have you identified him in the censuses.

I might be wrong but it doesn't feel like a military uniform although I suspect some of our other forum members might be better informed than me.

Post by **Jamie79** » 15 Jul 2009 20:06

Thanks!

His name was William Pert, born 1899. Death date as yet unknown, but it was at some time between 1953-1975. I'm guessing the photo was maybe taken circa 1920-30? I've no idea as to any military service.

He was a cobbler and (I believe) hailed from Birkenhead, before settling somewhere in the West Derby area where he married Ellen Kelly and had two daughters. Ellen died a widow, in Knowsley in 1975.

Post by **MaryA** » 15 Jul 2009 21:18

Well he certainly married in Birkenhead in 1923, so since we might as well check for any military career which would have been before he married Ellen, do you have a note of his parents names in case they are mentioned as next of kin?

I've been unable to find anything in the WWI service records etc. relating to your ancestor I'm afraid.

Post by **Jamie79** » 16 Jul 2009 09:20

Thanks Mary, all a bit sketchy I'm afraid, nothing at all is known about him or his family among my few remaining relatives on that side of the family.

I have an electronic scan of the original marriage certificate which mentions his father was also a William Pert, boot repairer, still alive in 1923. Ellen Kelly's father was William Joseph Kelly, an Iron Turner, deceased by then.

Interestingly there is a William Pert, boot maker, with a one year old son, also William, in the 1901 census for Walthamstow, north London. No idea if this is a complete red herring, or if the Pert's relocated from London to Birkenhead at some point between 1901-1923!

Post by **Tina** » 16 Jul 2009 10:04

Hi folks
Could he have been a stretcher bearer, they had arm bands on their left arm & no cap badge insignia.

I think we need our mate Mark on this one..pm sent

CONGRATULATIONS Jamie on tying the knot...
Very best wishes to yourself and your bride.

Tina

Post by **MaryA** » 16 Jul 2009 10:13

I certainly wouldn't rule out the family, the occupations are too coincidental with an uncommon name, however you might be able to narrow down the time they arrived on the Wirral since I believe they are in Eastbourne in 1911.

On the 1911 census search enter the reference RD71 SD1 ED4 and put Pert in the "Other Members of the Household" and you will see

William 34, Elizabeth 34 - could this be Rose E?, William 12, John 10, Elizabeth 6 and Frank 4. (John's birthplace is given as Walthamstow)

Under the circumstances I would think it worth while spending a few credits on this family just to confirm that they are the same ones.

Good thought Tina, but haven't seen Mark about for a while, maybe he's on holiday, he or Ken might at least be able to confirm whether it is or isn't a military uniform.

I'm thinking we now need trade directories for Cheshire but I'm doubtful whether we have any amongst the crew. Hesitant as I am to refer you to another forum, I would suggest you ask on the Cheshire board of www.rootschat.com to see if anybody can help with directories.

Post by **Mark Abbott** » 16 Jul 2009 10:15

I don't think he is wearing a British Army uniform.

Does the photo have any details on it regarding where it was taken?

Post by **Tina** » 16 Jul 2009 10:38

Thank You Mark..
That was a quick response..

Tina

Post by **Jamie79** » 16 Jul 2009 10:45

I don't possess the original photo, but I'll contact my second cousin in Denmark and see if I can find out from him whether there's anything written on the reverse.

Thanks for all the ideas folks. It'd be great to nail down what the uniform he's wearing is. No idea as to where the photo was taken, looks like quite a grand backdrop though!

On the 1901 census image from Walthamstow the siblings do match those you've found in Eastbourne Mary. I wonder if it is them, 'Rose E.' could well be Elizabeth couldn't she. Pert does seem a fairly rare surname in England, but is rife in certain Scottish fishing villages as I've found in my research.

Post by **MaryA** » 16 Jul 2009 11:39

Jamie79 wrote: looks like quite a grand backdrop though!

That would be a set in a photographic studio, which hopefully might be identified by the owner of the original, then maybe the dates the studio was in business could help pin down the date the photograph was taken.

Post by **Jamie79** » 16 Jul 2009 11:57

As I say, I'll check, but I wouldn't hold out too much hope regarding origins of the photo. Will see what I can find out.

It's quite a moving story in that I (nor anyone else in my family) never knew of my second cousin in Denmark until he by chance found a post of mine on here earlier in the year.

His mother left England in 1956 to see the world and ended up living and working for a time in Denmark. She met and married a Dane while at sea and they had two sons while living in California in the 1960s, before returning to Denmark. She sadly passed away in December last year aged 83, at which point my second cousin found things like the photo above, various certificates and so on and began to piece a few things together.

We have since been able to unite two seemingly matching professionally taken photos of his mother and her little sister - my grandmother - who died from TB in 1953, aged just 23 and with two infant sons, my father and his brother. It's been fascinating suddenly being able to make a few connections I never thought I'd have a chance of finding.

Post by **marchbird** » 16 Jul 2009 12:15

Jamie

There is a William Pert, boot repairer, in the 1938 directory.

There are two addresses - probably one is home address.

4 Alleyne Road, Walton, Liverpool 4.
22a Warren Street, Liverpool 3.

Hope this helps.

Marchbird

Post by **northmeols** » 16 Jul 2009 12:45

the uniform looks very similar to that of a relative who was an Orderly on the ambulances at Liverpool Hospital during WWI

Post by **Jamie79** » 16 Jul 2009 13:44

Thanks folks, my great grandad would have been about 19 as WWI drew to a close in 1918, he looks older than that in the photo, but I suppose it's sometimes hard to tell in older pictures. The orderly/medical corps type route seems definitely one worth investigating though.

Also, just looked on a map and the Alleyne Road address in L4 looks to be a stones throw from where I know for a fact my father's grandparents (on his father's side, not the Perts) lived for many years. Such a shame I'll never know the story of how my grandparents met. They would probably both been at school in the area in 1938, although there was 6 years age difference. I wonder does anybody know the of a way to try and look up school records?

So grateful for all your help and suggestions, thanks again.

Post by **MaryA** » 16 Jul 2009 13:48

This link http://www.liverpool-genealogy.org.uk/L ... chools.htm gives the availability of school records at the Liverpool Record Office.

Post by **Jamie79** » 16 Jul 2009 14:39

I'll have to book some time off to come down and have a good rummage around LRO, thanks for that link. I'll work out which ones were nearest the Alleyne and Lambourne Road addresses I have and work from there. Funny, my auntie and uncle now live on Utting Avenue, right between the other two addresses. At least one branch of our family have stayed loyal to their roots!!