BIVRI Lookup Please

Post by **colette** » 27 Mar 2009 23:15

Hi

would somebody mind checking if theres a marriage Manchester Catherdral for James Ratcliffe & Martha Collier 1825, just wondering was the brides fathers name mentioned.. or was this later they put a father ??

I am helping an Anne on Genesreuntied.. she has a William Collier born c 1812-14 in Golborne Lowton.. he married Ellen Taylor in 1860..but his fathers name on the marriage cert is James Ratcliffe..William was living in Bury in 1851 with a cousin named John Collier at Parsons Lane.

I found the marriage for James Ratcliffe to Martha Collier in 1825.. so i am thinking Martha was a single woman, otherwise William would have put a MR COLLIER ?? down as his dad even if he had died...

I find this Martha & James Ratcliffe in 1841 at Ware Foot Musbury Bury..
But typicaly William is not with them, James has two of his sons there one with a wife and kids..

Do you think i am on track with this Martha ???.

By 1871 William and wife Ellen have Ellen's son Lewis Taylor with them one son of their own named John Henry abd a Hamlet Collier born 1867 down as adopted son.. born Warrington.. But in 1881 Hamlet is with his parents in Warrington Henry Collier & Martha, so Henry & William have to be connected some way but can't work out how..

If anyone can shed some light and help out i'd appreciate it,, I just wanna proove William was Martha's son.. Martha was born in 1786.

Martha wa still living in 1851 at Wear Foot Bury.. says she was born Haslington she was a widow with the Boothman family..

Cheers

Post by **MaryA** » 28 Mar 2009 08:46

Sorry Colette, no mention of either the marriage or William's birth on the BIVRI.

Prior to 1837 generally there wasn't a requirement for the father's name to be put in the marriage register, a great disappointment to many of us of course, but there is often the occupation and sometimes the witnesses are useful, it also often states "of this parish" or gives the parish they were from. Generally this is as much as can be expected.

I do feel you are on the right lines with Martha though, but seems quite a while afterwards that she and James married, I wonder if there was a reason for that - could James have already been married? Still no clues to this on the BIVRI.

Post by **MaryA** » 28 Mar 2009 08:53

Just as a comment - Henry Collier's father John, was born in Lowton approx. 1805. His eldest son is Hamlet, born approximately 1827.

I'm suspecting that when your William was looking after young Hamlet it was because he was the youngest of the family and his mother had just died.

Post by **MaryA** » 28 Mar 2009 09:12

There is a Will for Collier, William, of Lowton, weaver. 17 Nov 1813 - might be worth a read, seems to be in Chester.

I'm thinking John is either elder brother or cousin, it's possible Collier was Martha's married name ....... if you checked the marriage "widow" might well be marked if she was one.

I have nothing on my CD's that give clues to John's parents. I think the baptism records for Lowton are what you need, probably Wigan. I've checked the Society's publications but they only seem to have MI's for St Lukes and St Mary's, it says on fiche but these might have been updated to CD.

Send a pm to Joe Griffiths, he'll know for certain if there are any, there's a fair in Stockport next Sunday too so I'll check to see.

Post by **Tina** » 28 Mar 2009 10:29

Hi Colette
Don't know if this is of help
1861 census
Brock's Yard Bury
John Collyer 49 slablayer's labr bn Lowton
Frances 52 bn Derbyshire
Peter 14 cotton weaver bn Bury.

Tina

Post by **colette** » 28 Mar 2009 11:58

Hi girls

Mary (I'm suspecting that when your William was looking after young Hamlet it was because he was the youngest of the family and his mother had just died.)

Do you mean Hamlet born 1867 mum had died..in 1881 his mum was still alive her name also Martha, Henrys wife..

I found the family you mean with a son Hamlet b 1827, so Henry is theres born 1829ish..so William is connected to these..could John Henry & Hamlets dad.. be the brother of Martha..??

Why if Martha had been married to a Collier would William not put his fathers name on his marriage cert ?? that makes me think Martha had never been married.. and James Ratcliffe was her only husband.

OR could this John born 1806 Henry's dad also be a son of Martha, then that would make little Hamlet b 1867 his nephew oh god how confusing is this haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

Leigh seems to be where the Lowton people went to church

Thanks for everything..

Post by **colette** » 28 Mar 2009 12:28

Hi Mary you are right..

Henry Colliers first marriage to Ellen Wood was Christ Church CROFT 1859.. HE REMARRIED 1873 to Martha Green hes a widower.. so Hamlet was put with William & Ellen as he had no mum to look after him.

And then taken back later on..So William is connected BUT just gotta work out how ??

Thanks

Post by **MaryA** » 28 Mar 2009 16:36

Whew, I know I posted it this morning, but I thought I saw that Hamlet's dad was a widower, glad I wasn't seeing things.

I think you need to find John's baptism and match his father up possibly as brother to William's, well at least the area of Lowton is common for both of them, fingers crossed.