Sir Walter Scott pub, Walter Street

[LukeJ]

Hello newbie here but i plan on staying around.

I'm looking for any information about a public house on Walter Street which might explain why my g.g.grandfather moved from Bradford to Liverpool.
On the 1851 census my g.grandfather William Jones (cooper) is at 18 Walter Street, next to the Tobacco Warehouses. He went on to run The Sun Inn
in Birkenhead and eventually moved back to Liverpool.

I went to Liverpool library the other week and found an advertisement somewhere on microfilm in one of the newspapers advertising for someone to run a new venture of this public house and vaults, called The Sir Walter Scott. Can't find it now! I was wondering if it was my g.grandfather who took it over, being a cooper with those links to the pub trade, and going on to run another pub. If there's some known connection from Bradford to Liverpool? He may have moved with father in law Benjamin Hainsworth (on the 1851 census 2 pages on, corner of Regent Rd). The area must be only a few years old at that point in time.
If anyone can point me in the right direction that'd be great, I'm new to the family history. Thanks, Luke

1851 census: Class: HO107; Piece: 2177; Folio: 427; Page: 2; GSU roll: 87172-87174 (Liverpool/St Martin/1vv)

[retiringtype]

Liverpool Mercury 1 June 1847

[daggers]

Hello and welcome to the forum. You will find lots of help here.

I have a book listing Liverpool's pubs in 1909 and the only one I can find to match the location of 'corner of Gt Howard St and Walter Street' was the Stanley Hotel at 191/3 Gt Howard Street, which had three doors in that street and one in Walter St. there were 32 pubs listed for Gt Howard Street then!
Pubs did change names (and landlords), so this may or may not be the one.
Walter St runs through to Regent Road and at no. 23 Regent Rd was the 'A1 at Lloyds', on the corner of Walter Street. This pub had two doors on each street. There are no pubs listed for Walter Street itself. Regent Rd had 20 pubs then.
Others may have more about earlier years. You may have to chase through directories (on microfilm) to follow what pub was on what corner at different years. Good hunting!

D

[LukeJ]

Thanks you two.
Yes retiringtype, that's the snippet i saw on microfilm!
And thanks for that Daggers, "A1 at Lloyds" sounds like the name of a bar you'd see today.
I'm still finding it hard to get my head around how many pubs there were back then
My Great grandfather had one called the Beehive Brewery on Mason street but that's my next research.

[retiringtype]

My Great grandfather had one called the Beehive Brewery on Mason street but that's my next research

The Beehive Brewery was on Upper Beau Street and was a brewery. Was your great grandfather Joshua Jones? I can see from the Gazette that he had the Beehive Brewery and had been at 55-61 Mason Street which was the Wellington and the brewery next door.

Have you seen this Beehive Brewery jug? https://goo.gl/1VzHqA

[LukeJ]

Yes, correct! That's an amazing find. I wonder who bought that.
wow i'll try and find a print of that picture somewhere, if you have any idea where to look?
Unfortunately the land and premises was compulsary purchased to make way for the railway and he was refused a transfer of licence to a premises nearby
resulting in bankruptcy The appeal is held in Lancashire archives in Preston which i'll head off to when i get the chance.

[MaryA]

The auction was quite a few years old so doubt that there would be an original photograph of it, but if you right click on it and choose "Save Image As", hopefully you will get a good enough copy to be able to print out yourself.

[LukeJ]

I've done more research on this now.
Still a bit unsure of whether it's this Walter Scott pub i'm after..as it's just corner of Regent Rd/Walter Street, "Vaults."
My great x 3 grandfather's brother in law here is the Manager of Vaults..Can Vaults refer to a shop or even brewery?

The brother in law Benjamin Hainsworth previously had a Wine Shop in Leeds (Papillon & Hainsworths) then moved to Liverpool with his family
c1851 plus my grandfather William Jones's family a few doors down who was a Cooper (before going on to run the Sun inn in Birkenhead.
Benjamin went on to have the Atlantic Hotel in Regent Road, (still there!) and I found a few funny newspaper articles about it then
in the 1860s, he died around 1869 and it was auctioned off.

my family history is full of pubs, its great.

[Blue70]

Around the 1840s/50s Liverpool was booming there were lots of opportunities particularly related to trade using the port and catering for an expanding population. People in Yorkshire would have been well aware of what was happening in Liverpool the port was important to "the northern powerhouse" of that time. Some directories mentioning Sir Walter Scott including what looks like your William Jones there in 1843:-

Pigot & Slater Directory 1843: Sir Walter Scott, Jones William, 143 Great (Howard Street?)

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903 ... cat=553964


Gore's Directory 1859: Leatherbarrow William, 191 Great Howard Street - Sir Walter Scott

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903 ... cat=241645


In Slater's Directory 1869 what appears to be same tenant as 1859 now renamed Stanley Inn:-

Stanley Inn, William Leatherbarrow, 191 and 193 Great Howard Street and 1 Walter Street


Blue

[retiringtype]

Benjamin Hainsworth (senior) was a brewer in Liverpool (Hainsworth & Tetley ) from the mid 1840's (the image below is from 1846 Slaters). He was the licensee of the Vaults at Regent Road/Walter Street in 1851, and son Benjamin was the manager. A "vaults" was typically a wine and spirits bar, or just a spirits bar. By 1853 Benjamin junior was a licensee at 75 Regent Road (image from 1853 Gore's).

[LukeJ]

Thanks guys, in respect to the last post .. I've been confused as there is a 3rd Benjamin Hainsworth also from Yorkshire,
What i think...This is the one from 14 Great Mersey street, who I don't think is my relative..
he married Catherine Tetley in 1839 and must be the brewer.


That guy is from Halifax on the 1851 census so comes from a different line of Yorkshire Hainsworths i think. In 1861 he's back in yorkshire.
At the same census, Benjamin Sr. and Jr. (from Bradford & Leeds) are at Walter Street/Regent Rd


in 1861 Benj. Jr is at Regent Rd and his Dad, now very old at another pub in Brownlow Hill (if anyone knows the Name)



Think they die in 1869, and 1863 respectively.
The victualler in Regent Road must be Benjamin Jr.
The guy in 14 G. Mersey street possibly a coincidence with same name and similar job??



Also whilst I'm on the topic from 1841 census...any ideas of this job? "......shopkeeper"

[Bertieone]

Beer Shop Keeper,

Apparently, able to make their own beer and sell it from home or shop, elsewhere known as Beer Houses.

[LukeJ]

Ah thanks for that. Sometimes you just can't read the writing

[LukeJ]

Around the 1840s/50s Liverpool was booming there were lots of opportunities particularly related to trade using the port and catering for an expanding population. People in Yorkshire would have been well aware of what was happening in Liverpool the port was important to "the northern powerhouse" of that time. Some directories mentioning Sir Walter Scott including what looks like your William Jones there in 1843:-

Pigot & Slater Directory 1843: Sir Walter Scott, Jones William, 143 Great (Howard Street?)

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903 ... cat=553964


Gore's Directory 1859: Leatherbarrow William, 191 Great Howard Street - Sir Walter Scott

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903 ... cat=241645


In Slater's Directory 1869 what appears to be same tenant as 1859 now renamed Stanley Inn:-

Stanley Inn, William Leatherbarrow, 191 and 193 Great Howard Street and 1 Walter Street


Blue

thanks Blue,
this is actually interesting, as I thought my grandfather didnt move to liverpool until about 1851...
on the 1851 census he's still down as a Cooper and the young children are down as being as born in Yorkshire,
but maybe he was here and came back and forth from liverpool to yorkshire. I think it might just be another name coincidence what do you think?