Finding the parents of Jane Rimmer

[42lingfield]

I have the certificate for the marriage of William Helsby, 32, and Jane Rimmer (24) on 30th May 1896 at Walton on the Hill parish church. Their addresses were 9 and 3 Moffatt Rd, Walton respectively: the fathers were William Helsby and John Rimmer, both deceased. One of their children had a sampler which the children had been led to believe had been done by their mother.

However, the sampler refers to Ann Jane Rimmer, Maghull School, 1884, age 12 so the children must have thought that to be their mother’s name.
Jane’s age on the marriage certificate indicates she was born between May 31 1871 and 29 May 1872. The sampler would give a similar birth period.

The GRO birth index for Ormskirk gives 3 possible Janes but only one Elizabeth Heaton married a John Rimmer but this John and Elizabeth appear to be the parents of Ann Jane who appears to have eventually married a Mr Percival not Mr Helsby.

Did the sampler lead me to Mahull in error as Wm Helsby and Jane married in Walton? On the other hand there must be some relationship as Jane’s offsprings had Ann Jane’s sampler.

Can anyone unpick this for me please? Originally the quest was to find the parents of Jane Rimmer but the mystery of the two girls and the sampler have defied me in all aspects.

[retiringtype]

This is a duplicated post for some reason.

Have you considered the Ann Jane Rimmer mmn Lunt, born in the Aughton district of Ormskirk RD in 1971? There's a John Rimmer/Elizabeth Lunt marriage in 1855

[Bertieone]

Peter,

Any occupation for John Rimmer on the marriage cert?

This chap was a Farmer, (Edit)


Name:
Anne Jane Rimmer
Baptism Date:
1 Oct 1871
Parish:
Maghull, Lancashire, England
Father:
John Rimmer
Mother:
Elisabeth Rimmer

[Bertieone]

The marriage RT posted, John Rimmer/Elizabeth Lunt, through various Baptisms and census, John Rimmer's employment appears to be land related, Market gardener, Ag Lab, Farmer.
Ann Jane's sister, Sarah, married Peter Robertson, 1897, St Catherine's, Edge Hill, Father, John Rimmer, Gardener, Deceased.

The Ann Jane Rimmer who married Mr Percival, her father was, Frederick Rimmer.

[Bertieone]

Baptism of son, Francis. Registered, Frank, mmn, Rimmer

Francis Helsby
Male
Baptism Date
9 Jan 1899
Baptism Place:
Liverpool, Lancashire, England
Father
William Helsby
Mother
Ann Jane

[Bertieone]

Baptism,...........Reg, mmn Rimmer

Frederick William Helsby
Gender:
Male
Baptism Date:
23 Nov 1896
Baptism Place:
Liverpool, Lancashire, England
Father:
William Helsby
Mother:
Jane

[Bertieone]

1901,
Lochinver St?
RG13 P3452 F43 P17,

William Helsby 36 Brick Layer, Bn, Aigburth
Jane Helsby 29 Bn, Maghull
Frederick William Helsby 4
Frank Helsby 2

[MaryA]

This is a duplicated post for some reason.

The other one has been removed to save confusion.

[42lingfield]

Hello 'retiring man' and Hello again Bert, -thanks for all the info. Last night I spent an hour writing a thoughtful and fairly lengthy reply. However, I think I pressed the wrong key and it vanished into the mists of time. Unfortunately my memory is passed its best so I will probably be unable to remember all the points I raised. But here I go again.

Thanks for the details of Ann Jane; she does appear to fit the bill. I am happy with the occupation of her father as a joiner. From my research I think she is the lady who eventually married a Mr Percival.

Getting back to Jane. The date of the Helsby/Rimmer marriage 30 May 1896 showing her age as 24 must mean she was born between 31 May 1871 and 29 May 1872. I have gone through the GRO birth index for Ormskirk and then looking up Freebmd to find a track to her parents. Could you perhaps see if you can see a path to her parents. Once I have this I might be able to see the relationship between Jane and Ann Jane which could explain why the sampler appears to have ended up with the wrong family. Perhaps I am on the wrong track altogether. I have been searching for Jane's parents in Maghull (following the sampler trail) but as the Helsby/Rimmer marriage was in Liverpool Jane's parents etc might have been in Liverpool.

I have written this note before studying your latest posting so thanks in advance.

Peter.

[42lingfield]

Bert - thanks for the baptisms of Francis and Fredk. Fredk fine but for Francis you have shown the mother as Ann Jane. Is this a slip of the pen so to speak or has this become more entangled? Peter

[Bertieone]

Sorry Peter,

I edited early this morning, Typo, John Rimmer was a farmer/Land Worker, not a joiner.

I believe the Jane Rimmer who married William Helsby was Ann Jane Rimmer, born 1871, Maghull to John Rimmer/Elizabeth Lunt

If you look at the baptism of their son Frank, she has used her full name Ann Jane, it appears she drops the Ann on occasions.

[retiringtype]

1881 census

Melling Road, Maghull

John Rimmer 55 Head /Agricultural Labourer /Maghull, Lancashire
Elizabeth Rimmer 53 Wife/ Melling
Joseph Rimmer 22 Son /Railway Porter/Maghull
Margaret Rimmer 19 Daughter /Dress Maker / Maghull
Elizabeth Rimmer 14 Daughter/ Maghull
Sarah Rimmer 12 Daughter/ Maghull
Ann J Rimmer 9 Daughter/ Maghull

[Bertieone]

[42lingfield]

Bert & RT - thanks for your notes. My head is spinning. I thought that this Ann Jane was the one who married Wm Hy Percival on 24 Dec 1898 in Everton Also the Anne Jane in your extract is with an E. Sampler has no E. Peter

[Bertieone]

Percival marriage, Ann Jane's father, Frederick Rimmer

[retiringtype]

The one who married William Henry Percival had a father Frederick Rimmer, a miller.

[Bertieone]

To comment on Ann with or without an "E" just down to whoever recorded the baptism.

There wasn't an AnnE (with the "E") Jane Rimmer registered around that time.

[42lingfield]

Bert & Rt - I have done it again and another posting of mine has vanished. Firstly thanks to you both for your endeavours. Again some info has been lost but my wife is demanding other activities and she has threatened to pull the plug. I will again try to remember what I wrote but will leave it until later. One of the comments directed at Bert was to observe that one of his posts was done about 5 in the morning. I hope, Bert, that worrying about the Rimmers is not preventing you from sleeping. Peter

[42lingfield]

Bert & 'retiring man' - With a refreshed brain we have worked through the findings. We are now sending for some certs which will move us, hopefully, to resolve the queries. Thanks again for the hard work you have done on our behalf. Peter.

[42lingfield]

<t>Bert and retiringtype - we have taken delivery of the appropriate certs. We can now say, as you thought, that Ann Jane Rimmer and Jane Rimmer are one and the same and that we are confident that her parents were John and Elisabeth Lunt. Thanks to you both. Peter