Beesley and Adams - trying to unravel marriages

[Tantau]

Alex, Bert, Blue,

Thanks for your replies.

Alex - sorry my mistake, it's Liverpool not Preston.

Bert - thanks for the marriage record. I'm still puzzled by the name of the witness. Can anyone else try to figure it out ? I don't think there's any such name as Locyens.

Blue - thanks for your kind offer. I'm also trying to trace my maternal grandfather's family, who are Scotts. My great-great grandfather was John Scott from Scoonie, Scotland, who married Ruth Hudson on the 1st Sep 1856 at St Michael's in Liverpool. I'd be interested in seeing the marriage record to figure out the name of his father. (It could be another John Scott, in which case it will be like looking for a needle in a haystack !).

I believe he later remarried and took his family to Florida around 1883, but I haven't yet figured out who he remarried (not that important since I'm mainly focused on blood relatives, which his 2nd wife was not, and there were no descendants from the 2nd marriage).

By the way, the Scott were a family of shipwrights and there may be records held for those who served their apprenticeships. This is a part of Liverpool's social history that I have yet to explore.

Regards, Gordon

[Blue70]

There are two St Michael's CE one was St Michael in the City, Upper Pitt Street the other is St Michael's Toxteth. St Michael's in the City was bombed in WW2 and we don't have access to most of their records we can't access its marriages for 1856. You would need to order the marriage certificate for this one.


Blue

[Tantau]

Hi Blue,

Yes, it was St Michael's in the City.

Thanks, Gordon.

[Blue70]

We have some links to apprenticeship records here:-

https://www.liverpool-genealogy.org.uk/ ... 43&t=15744


Blue

[Bertieone]

Liverpool Mercury, 5 Sept, 1856.

[Bertieone]

The 1861 census, Toxteth Pk,

RG9 P2699 F132 P37,

John Wm Scott 24, Scotland, Ships Carpenter.
Ruth Scott 21
John Wm Scott 2
Mark Hudson Scott 4

Scotland's People gives one result for a search, John William Scott, born 1836/38
Parish, Ormiston, 31 8 1838
Parents, David Scott, Mary Isabella Eames.

It would have to be opened for more information.

[Tantau]

Thanks Bert,

So John Scott the shipwright was born in Scotland. His father was a John Scott who was born in Penrith, Cumberland in 1816, and who was a mariner who ended up being the Master Pilot on Guide Boat #9 on the Mersey (I have a transcript of his pilot's record provided by a relative and authenticated by the Liverpool Pilots Association). I believe John Scott the Pilot was married twice.

It's very confusing, what with numerous John Scotts and the fact that they were shipwrights and mariners meant they moved from location to location to chase work, and then they weren't always at home at the time of the census. Oh, and then from each marriage they seemed to have had 5-6 children. If there's anyone else on this forum who could be related to this family I'd love to hear from them. There's quite a story to be told.

Gordon.

[Bertieone]

What's in the Pilots records that links him to John William Scott, Bn 1837, 1861 census, who married Ruth Hudson?

[Tantau]

Hi Bert, nothing specifically other than date of birth and date of death. For quite a while I was trying to figure out the connection between this record (the relative who transcribed it has long since shuffled off his mortal coil and there's no context available) and our family. John William Scott was a shipwright from Leven, Scotland, and John Scott was a master pilot, born in Penrith, Cumbria. There was no census record that connected the two because John Scott was invariably on his boat when the census was taken. However, I've now managed to find John William's marriage certificate which states that his father was a John Scott, master pilot, which makes the connection.

It seems therefore that John Scott was born in Penrith, somehow made it to Leven where John William was born, then they came down to Liverpool where John Scott remarried and had more children. There's a challenge with 19th century families when it comes to certain trades/professions which move around a lot to chase work, such as mariners, shipwrights, miners, etc.

I've done a quick check, and it seems that there are fairly comprehensive transcriptions of parish registers for Penrith available online for the late 1700s and early 1800s, so I'll now start to research those.

Thanks again to you, Alex and Blue for your assistance.

Lastly, do you have access to records for the 1950s & 1960s ? I'm trying to trace another descendant of John William - a John J (could be James or Joseph) Scott, born in 1933, and who possibly got married in that time.

Regards, Gordon

[Blue70]

Marriage records for the 1950s and 1960s are not online but Free BMD and Lancs BMD can be useful in identifying possible marriages.


Blue

[MaryA]

I separated your enquiry from the Familysearch Links Board and put it here with a reply https://www.liverpool-genealogy.org.uk/ ... 24&t=15874

[Tantau]

After much research I think I've now got a fix on Mary Hay(s). The GRO records for all of Richard and Mary's children say that the mother's maiden name was Hay not Hays, as she herself wrote on their marriage certificate. I believe her father was Henry Hay, not William Henry Hay and her parents could be Henry Hay and Mary Foster who were married on the 19th May 1850 at St Nicholas and St Ann.

They had three children:
David b 1854 but died early 1855.
Mary b 1855
William Henry b 1860

William Henry Hay married Martha Jane Hay on 7th June 1890. Would it be possible to get a transcription or image of their marriage certificate ? I'd be interested to see whether his father Henry Hay is deceased, and also who the witnesses are, which might help me tie everything together.

Thanks, Gordon

[MaryA]

It's 7 July not June

[Bertieone]

Henry Hay/David Hay, Brothers

[Tantau]

Bert, Mary,

Many thanks for the marriage certificate and the info about David and Henry. This is extremely helpful.

Kind regards, Gordon