LEADER / CLUCAS / DUNN / McDONOUGH mystery

[plimmerian]

My cousin-in-law asked me if I could help to try and locate a picture of his late father, hopefully online, in someones family tree. I have messaged a few people with the family names who have their tree as private but have not heard back. So I thought I'd try and reveal who his paternal grandfather was instead by asking for your help, as it seems the grandparents didn't marry!

First clue is the death entry of the late father:

Name John Joseph Dunn
Birth Date 28 May 1915
Date of Registration Oct 1996
Registration district Knowsley

Second clue is the marriage of the divorced parents (even though the father's name has an extra initial):

Date of Registration Jun 1960
Registration district Liverpool
Volume Number 10d
Page number 906
John J G Dunn
Doris M Preston (nee Oates)

Finding the birth was more tricky but I believe this is the entry he would require to obtain a birth certificate:

Birth Sep 1915
Liverpool 8b 140
Dunn John
(Leader)

I've said this must be him, as the only clue he had to his paternal grandparents is the grandmother's name of Sarah Ann McDonough

This was confirmed with her death entry:

Name Sarah Ann McDonough
Birth Date 12 Jun 1880
Date of Registration Jun 1972
Registration district Liverpool
Volume 10d
Page 744

A likely marriage (as no DUNN was found) of a Sarah Ann to a McDONOUGH was:

Marriage Sep 1934
Liverpool 8b 431
Clucas Sarah A
McDonough Michael

But in 1911 at 29 Segrave St, Liverpool and listed as married for 9 years I find this couple and the family (which matched my cousin's aunties names he'd mentioned):

Charles Dunn 42 hd
Sarah Dunn 31 wf
Catherine Dunn 8 dau
Thomas Dunn 6 son
Rose Dunn 5 dau
Norah Dunn 1 dau
Sarah Clucas 14 step-dau
Jane Clucas 12 step-dau

In 1901 she is at the household of her mother (RYAN) but no husband or children are with her.

In 1891 as the daughter of the RYAN household (but no marriage to CLUCAS fitted this name after this date)

Her daughter's baptism seemed to reveal the missing spouse
Name Sarah Ann Clucas
Baptism Date 27 Jan 1897
Parish Liverpool, St Peter
Father's Name William Clucas
Mother's Name Sarah Ann Clucas

A marriage of a William CLUCAS to a Sarah Ann revealed:

Marriage Jun 1896
Liverpool 8b 12
CLUCAS William
LEADER Sarah Ann

and this marriage seemed to explain her mother's name:

Marriages Jun 1894
Liverpool 8b 46
Leader Sarah Ann
Ryan James

which lead me to an 1881 census entry in Bristol St Philip and Jacob Out, Gloucestershire, England - as Bristol was given as her place of birth in the census entries (and not a Scottish born lady as my cousin had thought!)

So that leaves the mystery of who was the paternal grandfather - Charles DUNN, born c1869 in Liverpool, listed as a clerk (racing? - casual) in 1911?

Is anyone else researching these names in their ancestry who could shine a light on these connections?

A photograph of any kind would be the jewel in the crown for my cousin-in-law!

Many thanks!

[alex69]

Bit of an obvious question BUT...Can we assume father's name was not shown on his Marriage certificate?

Alex

[alex69]

1939 living at 15 Clarence Street she is shown as a Widow. Also living in the property are Thomas Dunn (Born 6 June 1904) a Post Office Postman, and Archie Gregory (born 12 December 1917) a Wharf Labourer.

At the very least this may support a McDonough/Dunn relationship.

Alex

[plimmerian]

Thanks for that!

(sensitive issues regarding marriage / ring etc - why only know the research being looked into)

Archie Gregory was her grandson via her daughter Sarah Ann Clucas who married Thomas James Gregory earlier in 1917!!

Guess this might be husband Michael:

Name: Michael McDonough
Age at Death: 56
Date of Registration: Mar 1939
Registration district: Liverpool North
Volume: 8b
Page: 691

best wishes!

[plimmerian]

PS from Liverpool Catholic baptisms Thomas DUNN appears to have been a twin, as a brother Charles Dunn appears with same birth date on the same baptism date!!