Liverpool & South West Lancashire FHS - Forum

I was exploring Steve Harding's web page containing his research on the Irish Viking settlers of Merseyside in the 10th Century and was curious about any sites in Liverpool. Wirral has a St Bridget's Church founded by Christian Vikings from Ireland and I remembered that there are some intriguing traditions in Liverpool associated with St Patrick that could have originated in the 10th Century settlement of the area by Viking Christians from Ireland rather than St Patrick himself. Here are the sites as discussed in Thomas Burke's "Catholic History of Liverpool":-

"By this time the Jesuits had built a chapel in Lumber Street, Old Hall Street, and dedicated it to the Blessed Virgin under the title of St. Mary. It was in the fitness of things that the site was chosen. Hard by was the pre-Reformation foundation in Chapel Street, while in the immediate neigh-bourhood was the spot where a well-founded tradition says St. Patrick preached on his way to the Isle of Man.

In Marybone, within a few yards of the present church of Holy Cross, a water fountain marks the place on which stood for centuries St. Patrick's Cross, as marked on old maps of the town, and which was in existence as late as 1775. In an Act of Parliament passed in 1771, to secure the repair of the road between Preston and Liverpool, the cross is specially named, because the street now called Marybone was then 'the road to Ormskirk'.

The neighbourhood possessed other traditions of Ireland's patron saint, the street between Cheapside and Hatton Garden bearing the name of St. Patrick's Hill."

http://www.archive.org/stream/catholich ... k_djvu.txt


The fact that a marker called St Patrick's Cross stood on the road to Ormskirk rings a bell straight away. The cross there in the 18th Century may have been an original or a later replacement based on a tradition of marking the route from Liverpool to Ormskirk. The site would also make a good trading place being across the river from the main Viking settlement on Wirral and on the road to the settlement at Ormskirk and the other Lancashire settlements.

The map below shows the location of St Patrick's Cross, St Patrick's Hill and the Pool of Liverpool:-





Kathy has kindly provided the photo below showing the plaque at the Holy Cross Church site:-





Liverpool wasn't a port in the Dark Ages the River Dee ports of Chester and Parkgate were used up until the Dee silted up. There also wouldn't have been many possible christian converts in Liverpool.

Here is Steve Harding's web page about the Vikings that left Ireland and settled in Merseyside in the 10th Century:-

http://www.nottingham.ac.uk/-sczsteve/

Does anyone have any more information about these St Patrick sites?


Blue

My theory is the Vikings of Wirral and the Irish Sea would have sailed into Liverpool via The Pool. They would have followed this bending body of water (Lithe Pool = bending pool) around to where Whitechapel now stands. Disembarking at Whitechapel they would have climbed up to St Patrick's Hill around where Hatton Garden now stands via what is now Crosshall Street. They would have traded at St Patrick's Cross or journeyed on to the Lancashire settlements.


Blue

In "Viking Mersey" by Stephen Harding there is a map showing major place names in Liverpool and Lancashire that come from the Vikings from Ireland who settled in the 10th Century. These names include: Aigburth, Kirkdale, West Derby, Thingwall, Croxteth, Toxteth, Litherland, Kirkby, Crosby, Formby, Ormskirk, Ainsdale, Birkdale, Skelmersdale and Scarisbrick.


Blue

Hi Blue,
Re the Wirral and references to St Patrick... I remember that in Spital Park [aka Brotherton Park], near Bromborough, there was a well or spring known as St Patrick's Well.

The well was a couple of 100 yards into the Park from the entrance at the Dibbinsdale Brook weir end of Spital Road just past the junction with Mill Road. The well had been there a long time before I first came to know of it, and that was over 70 years ago!

DS

Thanks DS that's interesting I didn't know about that. I think when the name St Patrick appears in these parts from an ancient date it says to me that there was a connection with Irish settlers.


Blue

I now think that St. Patrick's Cross dates from a period later than the Viking era. My theory still involves people coming here from Ireland but rather than the 900s I'm thinking it dates from the beginnings of trade with Ireland.

Here are some interesting historical quotes:-

A general and descriptive history of the ancient and present state, of the town of Liverpool, comprising, a review of its government, police, antiquities, and modern improvements; the progressive increase of street, square, public buildings, and inhabitants, together with a circumstantial account of the true causes of its extensive African trade : the whole carefully compiled from original manuscripts, authentic records, and other warranted authorities by James Wallace (1795)

“There is nothing more of antiquity relating to Liverpool, excepting an old cross, which formerly stood at the corner of Pinfold-Lane, opposite the Flashes, and reported to have been placed there in commemoration of St. Patrick, who is said to have rested here on his passage to Ireland.”

(Page 42)


“it appears, that a high or principle cross was at this time (1640s) standing on the spot, where the present exchange is now erected; and it is somewhat remarkable, that no writers, ancient or modern, have made any mention of it. St. Patrick's cross is noticed, and there is every reason to believe, that the principal cross, in the very centre of the town, would have been more deserving of description; it might have been a very beautiful erection, such ornaments being almost general throughout the kingdom, whereon it was usual to bestow much expense, perhaps, in compliment to the taste of Edward the first who had erected them in honour of his Queen. The town record undoubtably mentioned this cross, but it is very singular, that neither painting nor engaving has conveyed an idea of the form and sculpture of this, nor of that of St. Patrick.”

(Page 47)


Liverpool as it was during the last quarter of the eighteenth century (1775 to 1800) by Richard Brooke (1853).

“In 1815 the present handsome Gothic tower and lanthorn (of St. Nicholas Church) were erected. In early times the image of St. Patrick stood in the church yard, and mariners going to sea used to offer up vows and prayers before it; but, with the decline of an ignorant and superstitious age, the image disappeared.”

(Page 44)


“We can scarcely doubt that Liverpool had a market from about the time of it's becoming a borough; but it is not known where the market was held, until after the middle of the 16th century, when it was established at the High Cross, for butcher's meat, fish, and vegetables. This cross was at the junction of the four main streets of the town, and was removed, in 1673, on the occasion of the preparations for the building of the then Exchange or Town-hall.

The general market was held for a considerable time in the vicinity of High-street, and of the Exchange; and another was established at the White Cross, little more than about a hundred yards distant, at the upper part of Chapel-street, near the place where the north entrance of the Exchange-buildings now is. The latter was, for a long time the principal market for potatoes, supplied for the most part from Formby and it's vicinity, which are considered by many, even to this day, the best in Great Britain. The place for holding the White Cross market was changed to St. John's Market, in 1822.

Another market, which afterwards became the principal one for the sale of provisions, vegetables, butter, and other articles usually sold in a market, was established early in the last century, in Derby-square, and on the south side St. George's Church, where Alderman Tarleton afterwards erected an obelisk of red stone, which was called “The Red Cross”, or “Tarleton's Obelisk”; and after it's establishment, the more ancient market in the vicinity of High-street and the Exchange, became disused, except as to the butchers' shambles, which remained there many years after 1775.

At that date the only markets for general purposes were two; of which the principal was the general one already mentioned, held in Derby-square, and near St George's Church. The other general market has also been mentioned before, and was called the White Cross Market; it was on a very small and reduced scale.”

(Pages 113-115)


“The lower end of Tithebarn-street, between Hatton-garden and Cheapside (formerly called Dig-lane,) was then called St Patrick's-hill; at the foot of which, and at the end of Pinfold-lane, now Vauxhall-road, stood a portion of St. Patrick's Cross. The remains of it were there three or four years after 1775 – communicated by Mr. John Wilson of Orrell, who remembered a portion of it standing. In former times, besides the White Cross and St Patrick's Cross, there were two other crosses in Liverpool; one the High Cross, near where the front of the Town-hall now is, and the other the Town-end Cross, near where St Stephen's Church, in Byrom-street now stands. St Patrick's Cross, and the Pinfold near it, are both laid down in Mr. Perry's Map of Liverpool, of 1769.”

(Pages 120-121)


“the first act for repairing and widening (the north road through Ormskirk and Preston) having been passed in the year 1771, in the 11th George the Third, Chapter 93, “An Act for repairing and widening the road from Patrick's Cross, within the town of Liverpoole, in the county palatine of Lancaster, to the town of Preston, in the same county of palatine.

(Page 163)


For further information look at my website on Saint Patrick's Cross:-

http://saintpatrickscross.weebly.com/



Blue

Thanks Blue, what at first appears a lot of information about the cross holds so much historical interest about the area in general.