Liverpool & South West Lancs Genealogy

[colette]

Hi Denise i am now going to Scrap GILBERT ROBINSON from the story ....


Having found in 1881 27 Anglesea Rd Walton Lpool

John Perks age 45 b Glossip Gen Labourer..
Elizabeth 38 b Abergeley Wales
Son John B Perks 8 months old

1891 Linton St Kirkdale

John Perks age 55 b South Wales aber????? Railway Porter
Elizabeth age 45 b Aberg?? North Wales
Son John Benjamin age 10 b Flixton Lancashire comes under Barton reg district..
Dau Mary Catherine age 4 b Lpool

phewwwwwwwwwwwwwww.. went wrong with Gilbert throught i was going mad..so Elizabeth only married twice.

so from what i can gather 4 kids all in all for Elizabeth...


xx
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ColB

[colette]

Hi

wondering about a John Todd Tuttle born 1801 in Connecticut USA..Physician.

Married Sarah Rogers 1824 New Have Connecticut..

His Obit says his parents were Bethel Tuttle & Hannah Rebecca English, it also says he has 4 children and out lived them all..his wife Sarah died before him..

Looking on IGI i see 5 children sadly no John.

Julia A 1825 died 1825

George William 1826 married 1851 died 1856..

Margaret b 1828 Windham Connecticut

Ida 1844 died 1884

Sonia J 1846 died 1848

Louisa J 1847 died 1848

all in New Haven Connecticut

theres a huge gap from Margaret born 1828 to Ida born 1844..so i am wondering if there are any more children for this John Todd Tuttle.

The obituary was wrong saying 4 kids when there were 6 so maybe there were more.

How many John Todd Tuttle's could there have been who were Physicians...

Another thought i had was what if John Henry Albert Tuttle was a secret child..John Todd Tuttle maybe he came over to England at some point and had an affair... its speculation..but seen as though we cant find anything on him it makes you wonder...

xx
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ColB

[1denise]

Hi Everyone,
Firstly, my apologies to Mary A - I will press the reply button in future.
Re John Tuttle - I will apply for his daughter's birth certificate and hopefully that will shed some light on the subject.
You asked about his Marriage certificate - both he and Elisabeth are listed as full age. John's address is virtually unreadable - but it looks like St Thomas Street and Elisabeth's is Doncaster St - and as they were married in Liverpool I presume these streets are from there - would you happen to know if there such a street as St Thomas St?.
I notice that you mentioned the Perks family in 1891 - I didn't realise that this Census was available, or do you access it elsewhere - also is there a 1901 Census available?.
Is it possible to search online for Baptisims?
Collette, you may have struck paydirt with John Todd Tuttle - as you say, how many John Todd Tuttle's (Physician) can there be.
Regards - Denise

[MaryA]

I would suspect the address is Sir Thomas Street, still in Liverpool now in a busy commercial area. Use http://maps.google.co.uk/ and you will see it's location.

There are a number of online subscription sites where you can search the censuses such as, www.ancestry.co.uk www.findmypast.com www.genesreunited.com The only freely available census is the 1881 which you can access for yourself at www.familysearch.org. This is the site that holds the most online baptisms, although it's not complete. http://www.liverpoolhistoryprojects.co.uk/ also has some RC baptisms and working on more.
_________________
MaryA - Member No. 6532
Liverpool Names - Lunt, Ayre, Forshaw, Parle, Ennis, Bayley, Russell, Baile, Mason
Any census information included in this post is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

[colette]

Hi Denise

Is there a house number in Sir Thomas St..we could check the 1861 census and see who was living there..

See what else i can dig up on this Connecticut John Todd Tuttle..
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ColB

[1denise]

Hi Collette,
Sorry, but there is no street number for John Tuttle in St.Thomas St, nor is there a number in Doncaster St for Elisabeth Thomas. I would be interested to read John Todd Tuttle's obit - how did you find it? I sure that it is John Henry's father, too much of coincedence with the name and occupation. I will be most grateful if you can find any more information on him. No wonder we couldn't find him in the UK. A friend in Sydney looked online at the lists of Physicians in the UK ( apparently there is a site you can look at) but she couldn't find him - now we know why.
Thankyou Mary A for the list of sites.
Regards - Denise

[colette]

Hi Denise the Obit is on this site///

http://mssa.library.yale.edu/obituary_record/1859_1924/1869-70.pdf

keep scrolling down you will find it..

We can't be sure as yet...this is his father.. but he died in New York so must have moved there later in life..from New Haven..

Thing thats bugging me is why no kids between Margaret 1831 and Ida 1844..as i said maybe John Todd Tuttle came over to the UK..perhaps doing medical training..and maybe met a lady and she fell pregnant..if not theres another John Todd Tuttle outhere who was a Physician haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa..

Lucky you have a good name to work with imagin if he was John Brown or Smith OMG..

XX
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ColB

[1denise]

Hi Collette,
Many thanks for the obit address, I have printed it out, as you say, perhaps he did come over to do some training and met John's mother - who knows. Your research ability is incredible!!
Regards - Denise xx

[colette]

Hi Denise

The Todd bit in John Todd Tuttle's name comes from his Great Grandmother..

His parents were Bethuel Tuttle born 1779 & Hannah Rebecca English.. Hannah Rebbeca's mother was Abigail Doolittle and her mother was Sarah Todd.. Abigail married Benjamin English...

Another interesting fact is Betheul Tuttle was partner to Marcus Merriman Sliversmiths..so they made a lot of silver in New Haven..

Think we need help with some passenger records to see if John Todd Tuttle ever left the USA.

I wish we could find John Henry & Elizabeth on the 1871 census..seems odd we cant find either of them..

And it still bothers me John Todd Tuttle and his wife Sarah have a big gap in their childrens birth years and it fits the 1840s.

I cant even see a death reg for John Henry Albert Tuttle its like hes vanished..

Can anyone else find his death reg..

xx
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ColB

[1denise]

Hi Colette,
Re John Henry Tuttle - when his son Richard in 1889, John Henry was listed as a "Foreman"on the marriage certificate - this would indicate that he was still alive then, as I have had other marriage certs from the UK where a parent of the Bride or Groom were listed as deceased.
Although his father John Todd was deceased in 1870, maybe once his marriage split up he could have possibly gone to the USA to visit his father's family - if that was the case, would he show up on a census over there or possibly on a shipping record?
Is it possible to find out the date of Hannah English's birth and possibly her mother and grandmother and also where they were born - how would I go about finding out this information?
I found a "John Tuttle"born 10/9/1826 and Baptised 17/9/1826 in Cringleford, Norfolk UK - Father John - Mother Sarah - don't know if this is him though!
My niece has access to "Findmypast"and found on the 1871 census - Elizabeth A Tuttle (born 1863/64) - Richard Lloyd Tuttle's sister - she is 7 years old and living with David Thomas (her grandfather) - on the 1881 census she is still there - living as a boarder, but no mention of David Thomas - maybe by then he has passed away - as you said before - why is she living with her grandfather and not with John Henry or Elisabeth (Thomas) Tuttle after they split.

xx

Denise

[1denise]

Hi Colette,
Just heard from my niece who has limited access to Ancestry.com and she has found an Entry in the New York Passenger Lists 1820-1957 for a Dr John T Tuttle - she doesn't have worldwide access, but I thought you would like to know that this supports your theory that he came over to the UK at some stage. She also suggested that there might be a record of him doing a course in the UK at a University.
Regards - Denise

[MaryA]

From our experience, because a father is not marked as deceased on a marriage certificate, it isn't certain that he is still living. We have often found that maybe the question might have been "what was/is the occupation of father". There have been definite instances where it was certain that the father was deceased but not stated.

On the Steamer Alaska 13 December 1869
Point of departure - Aspinwall, Panama
Dr John T Tuttle Age 47 Male Physician
The country to which they severally belong - United States
The country to which they intend to become inhabitants - United States
_________________
MaryA - Member No. 6532
Liverpool Names - Lunt, Ayre, Forshaw, Parle, Ennis, Bayley, Russell, Baile, Mason
Any census information included in this post is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

[colette]

Hi that DR John T Tuttle sailing in 1869 would have been born in 1822..

So this must be another Dr Tuttle..

I have also seen on the Castle Garden Passenger lists to USA web site..DR TUTTLE sailing on the Tuetonic from Liverpool aged 43 Occ Physician... arriving 1st Sept 1892 USA doesnt give initials but makes this one born 1849..

I was thinking myself what if John Henry hadn't died..we have seen before ladies remarrying who were still married..

In 1901 Elizabeth A daughter of John Henry, her hubby Thomas Webb was a Foreman at Rubber Works..
You have mentioned a couple of times now that John Henry was also a Rubber Worker and a Foreman on Richards marriage..could be a connection there....

I think the 1871 is the key..as i cant find either John Henry or Elizabeth A on this census..and their 2 children are left with others..so were are they
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ColB

[colette]

Hi

I think also we have to work out why Elizabeth A was in Hulme Manchester in 1879 when she marries John Perks...shes not there in 1881 shes back in Liverpool with John Perks and their son John Benjamin Perks..and poor little Richard has been left in Pendlebury Lancashire.. with the Gortons Thomas & Alice... cant see a connection to Elizabeth with this couple..So why would you leave your son there and come back without him....

Thinking that maybe John Henry and Elizabeth moved out that way..cant see her going on her own..could be they were lodging with the Gorton's and maybe John died and his death is registered in the Pendlebury area.. prob is the name TUTTLE theres a lot of Tootles out in Lancashire....

by 1891 Richard is with the INLAWS in Birkenhead..and his mother is in Liverpool..

Been trying to find more info on this John Perks..1881 says born Glossop 1891 says South Wales ?????
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ColB

[1denise]

Hi Mary A and Colette,
Many thanks for your reply.
I am inclined to think that the John Todd Tuttle that you found last week is the right one, as the name Todd appears as a surname from the great grandmother, and as his son John Henry married for the second time in 1863, so it would seem unlikely that the one born in 1822 would be the right one - what do you ladies think?
The Dr.John T Tuttle -Physician sailing on the steamer Älaska - was there any middle name listed or just the T.?
Could you please tell me if I am allowed to ask about a relative on another side of my family tree on the saming posting, or do I do a seperate one?
Many thanks and regard -
Denise xx